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March 2, 2023

From Arrested by FBI to Building a $50M Roofing Business with Moises Sanchez — EP 015

Episode 15
Moises Sanchez

Ten Years In The Making is a weekly podcast on how to effectively grow a startup.     

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Adam Robinson: So, Moises Sanchez, you're in a roofing business. You're in Minnesota. You were doing 12 million to 15 million five years in a row, did 30 last year. You’re going for 50 this year. 12 to 15, six years in a row is without the Internet. Now, you're down the Internet rabbit hole. True guerrilla marketer. And then once we get into this life story like you'll have never heard anything like this. So, can you just take me back to the beginning? Where did you come from? And then this journey sort of like to get you to where you started your company. Let's start there.

Moises Sanchez: Yeah. So, I'm from Mexico, was born and raised in the mounts of Mexico. I have two birthdays. I was born in a mountain. My mom didn't come down until eight months later. Can you hear me?

Adam Robinson: Yeah. I can hear you.

Moises Sanchez: My mom didn't come down until eight months later from the mountains to register me, and she put the wrong month. So, I celebrate my birthday in August and September.

Adam Robinson: Well, there you go. Double presents.

Moises Sanchez: You know, we all came down eventually. We had more housing at a small village in my town and went to school there. And then when I was 12, I was brought here. My mom brought us all here and we crossed the border illegally. We got caught twice. And the third time, we made it. Got here when I was 12, started middle school, and started high school. I didn't speak any English, graduated high school, and started when I was, I think, 17 is when I started college. I wanted to be a lawyer. I always wanted to be a lawyer. That's the thing that I had in the back of my head. And it was 2003 so it was that gold rush of real estate, 2003. And I had a friend that was a realtor and he's like, “Hey, you should come and sell real estate work for my company.” And I asked him how much money you make last year and he said like over $200,000. So, this is back in 2003. There's no Google yet or it's not that big. So, I go and I check the average salary of a lawyer in Minnesota and the average salary of a lawyer nationwide. It was in the $60,000, like $65,000. So, I go talk to my cousin, “Hey, how do I drop out?” And she's like, “Just fill this out.” I filled it out and I dropped out and I got my real estate license when I was 18.

I had to wait a couple of months and I've been doing the same guerrilla tactics. I mean, I always know that direct mail marketing works. That thing works. And it’s so hard to do it that nobody does it. Nobody does it. So, when I was 18, I was doing 12 or 15 closings every month. So, I'm 18 years old. I was raised poor here in Minnesota. We lived in a two-bedroom apartment. That was my mom, my dad, and eight kids. All the eight kids in the same bedroom. Well, you know, living room and stuff like that. So, that kind of money is not good for an 18-year-old. I was the older of my cousins, older than my brothers. So, 40,000, 50,000, and I went through that every month. But one thing that I did, so I have learned from a long time ago that I don't know everything and I'm not the best but I know that I'm very good at recognizing that, and then I'm good at asking direction, "Where do I find the best?” And then I’d go to the best and I talk to them and try to get something actually for a fee. So, I learned that the higher the fee, not 100% a time but a lot of times the higher the fee, the better the stuff that you learn.

So, there is this seminar. I'm 18 years old and I'm trying to make myself look old so I have these $3,000 suits. I look like Al Pacino in The Godfather. You put a lot of gel on the back of my - because I'm 18 years old and I'm helping people buy their first house, right? So, I go to this seminar and I can’t remember what the name of this guy but he's the one that brought the buyer agency. Back then, it was only one agent, the listing agent, the buyer. They have representations and this guy is the one who pioneered that and pushed that. He had this software. It was like $500. And you know, this guy's having 20, 30 closings every month. He has assistants and everything. And he shows in this, this is 2004, 2003 going 2004, and he's showing all these fancy postcards, all the postcards got bright colors, professionally done. And his system is just ugly black and white and his assistant you can just go there and type it in, you have a piece of paper and you cut it in half and then you send your postcards. But they’re so weird and so ugly that they work. They stand out.

So, I send that out and then it had sales letters and I get listings. I only went to sixth grade in Mexico, so I translated one of the sales letters into Spanish with my sixth-grader Spanish and I translated it as much as I could. And then I printed it and my broker had some really fancy letterhead paper. And I always loved fountain pens. I'll tell you about what I have here in a minute in my building but I always love fountain pens. I have a thing for fountain pens. I spent thousands and thousands of dollars in fountain pens. So, back then I had a fountain pen and I write the letter and I printed it a thousand times. Okay. And there's like 12 realtors there. We share a floor. Hold on. My camera keeps losing focus. And I print the letter and then I grab the fountain pen and I start signing every letter by hand. And they're just kind of walking around and looking at me funny. After a hundred letters, my hand hurt. I have ink on my fingers and I'm getting the letters dirty. And I keep going, I keep going, I keep going, and boom, like five or six hours later, I'm done with a thousand letters. And once I'm done, one of the realtors, they all start laughing. I'm like, “Oh, I'm done.”

They all start laughing. And one of the realtors comes over. He's like, “Man, you're stupid. Why the hell didn’t you sign one and then make a thousand copies?” And I'm like, I didn't even think of that. I'm like,Oh, yeah. You’re right.” So, I have a little machine that folds the letters, three at a time. I buy it at OfficeMax or those office box stores. And I fold them. I put them in the envelopes and then I wrote the address with the pen. Same, a thousand. And they're all just laughing at me. And then I send my letters. It was by Wednesday or Thursday, and the next week I got 12 listings from a thousand letters.

Adam Robinson: Wow.

Moises Sanchez: The next day, like the next week, I got another one, oh, I got another one. The next week, everybody in the floor was busy signing letters and send them out.

Adam Robinson: That’s hilarious.

Moises Sanchez: So, I’ve always known that. So, I was doing 12, 15 close a month, 18 years old with no radio, no website, no nothing. Guerilla marketing. I always like that. So, another thing that I did, on Sunday I go to church. I'm not a Christian guy but I go with my assistants. We pay the, you know, I have folks in the Hispanic community. I pay the pastor $300, $400 to let me talk at the end. So, I come to the floor and I say, "Praise the Lord and everything. You guys want to buy a house, there's Lissette over there. She can take your information and give you a loan.” And by every church meet-up, I get four or five but I did it like three times a day. So, I went to three different churches every day. I cold calling. I was cold-calling with a lot of my cousins and these are gangbanger cousins but I pay them by the hour. I buy them beer, I buy them pizza, and there's a bonus for whoever gets the most. And I think like 34, that's already appointment. And one day, I mean these are gangbangers, okay, we got 35 applications over the phone. We just call the phone.

Thirty-five applicants like in 4 hours from like 5 to 9. And these people, they give us their first name, their last name, Social Security number, where they work, how much money they make. So, I grab that and this is before the email. It’s not so big anymore. It wasn't that big back then, 2003. I fax them all to my loan officer. This one afternoon just like five gangster guys cold calling by you got the line and you dial the number. I send them home. Then we went out and we party like every night. Came back the next day at 11. I had 18 approvals, like five or six. They had a dead social security number. Nothing we can do with that. And like 12 that needed some work. I grab the ones that didn’t work. I grab the dead ones. Throw them in the garbage. The 18 I give to my assistants, start making appointments. Let's get this going. So, 18 approved for people to buy a house in one afternoon.

Adam Robinson: It's amazing.

Moises Sanchez: So, we’re always going to do this type a thing. So, I go back to my store, went up. You know, 18 years old I’d be making $40,000, $50,000 a week especially you were raised poor.

Adam Robinson: So, by the way, were you always an outperformer growing up? When you were in Mexico, were you just more motivated and crushing it?

Moises Sanchez: I've always been a smart kid. When I was a little kid, I was very quiet. You know, I was a kid that never spoke. I always been a physically small kid, very quiet kid. Not because I was scared but because I had nothing to say and I wanted to learn. So, I could be in a room and people would not notice I'm there and they're talking freely about my mom or freely about something because they don't know I'm there. So, I learned to keep my mouth shut. And that happened until I was 12, 14. That changed. That changed dramatically. I became a waiter at Denny's at 14 with a fake I.D. And the cooks at Denny's destroyed my mind. I learned a lot of things about life, about women, and about there's a play of words in Spanish, and that changed me. And I always want to have money. I always want to have money. I knew poverty. I knew that in Mexico, I go to bed hungry because there was no money. So, I said, I'll do anything I have to do as long as it's not illegal but if it's illegal, that's the only option, I’ll go ahead and do it but thank God I have never done that. But I always was willing to do whatever it takes so I'm not poor again, so I'm not in extreme poverty.

Let's go back to that. When I was a realtor, somehow, one day, one week, it turned out that in one week I'm 18 years old, I closed two houses, one to flip and live, and one to flip and sell. Got myself a brand new Mercedes Benz, a mustang, and a BMW all from Monday through Saturday. So, I made the money and I spend the money but then I had a girlfriend and we broke up, a three-year relationship, and that got me into a lot of trouble. I started drinking a lot, doing a lot of drugs. And my mom and dad literally came from Mexico because at this time they went back and they literally beat me back to Mexico. They said, “You’re in the wrong path,” and they literally grabbed me and brought me back to my town. I was 20 years old when I went back. It was 2005, and that got me off the drugs. That got me off the drinking. And that's where I met my wife. And I took with me $350,000. The peso was 10,000 back then. So, that was a lot of money. And I was thinking of buying the gold coin but I didn't and instead, I started a pig farm.

Adam Robinson: What inspired you to do that? So, by the way, just to recap, dirt poor, into the States illegally, no English. Somehow, eight years later, you were bringing back to Mexico $350,000. That is incredible right there.

Moises Sanchez: Yeah. So, I start a pig farm. My dad thought it was a good idea, so I learned never to take business ideas from my dad. But I'm still, I don't know, I'm still a little bit lost. I mean, there's a big shift in my life because I was born and raised in Mexico. I did not know Mexico because when I left I was 12 years old. When I came back, I'm a man. So, there's those eight years that I did not know. And this is a small village in the mounts of Puebla right next to Guerrero. Guerrero probably 40 years has been a no man's land. I'm more in Guerrero. So, I went there, small village, and I start building a pig farm and I end up with 5,000 pigs. And I have ten people and I'm 20 years old. To a lot of people, I have a lot. So, I had a Dodge Ram, I had a Sonoma, I had a dirt bike. I bought a horse from a big drug dealer from Michoacan. It's a trained horse, beautiful horse. You get on this horse and you look like a general, anybody that gets on this horse. You put music, it dances. So, it’s a beautiful horse. So, I had all this and my wife, she was a town president's daughter and everybody wanted her but I got there and, boom, I got her right away.

Adam Robinson: On the horse.

Moises Sanchez: That was before the horse. When I rode that horse, women will whistle, you know. And I don’t know if they’re whistling at me or whistling at the horse. And another thing, that's my persona. I kind of show off. I try not to but that's the way I am. It's mine. I like to enjoy it. I like to show it off, look at my shiny object. Nothing I can do with that. That’s just the way I am. But that created me a lot of enemies down there. So, I had my horse. The best time in my life was when I married my wife. You know, we went and lived in her grandpa's abandoned house. I painted it. I refurbished it. It’s a small little house right next to a creek. And I lived there for three months, maybe four months, and that's probably the best month of my life. You go to bed. You can hear the creek at night.

Adam Robinson: Yeah. That’s wonderful.

Moises Sanchez: And you wake up in the morning, you can hear the creek in the morning. Very peaceful, just me and her. And I have to have people work for me. I'm selling pigs. I'm not making a lot of money but I’m making about $600, $800 a week. That's a lot of money over there in a small little village. Get enough money to live a decent life, have fun, you know. And on May 25, 2005, I get around 9 in the morning, and like right away they were waiting for us. They start shooting at us.

Adam Robinson: Who's they?

Moises Sanchez: The people. I never saw them. Never met them.

Adam Robinson: Yeah. Just like people who builds up hatred towards you. Is it narco or is it like something else?

Moises Sanchez: It was narco, yeah. It was narco, yeah. I don't know, they were trying to kidnap me or kill me, man. So, they put a hit on me. And my pig farm was like maybe 30 minutes from my town on a car. So, I have one guy that slept there on the pig farm, and the other people didn't arrive until 10. And I kept telling him to come over, "We’re getting shot. Come over my truck,” and the guy would not. He went to hiding. So, I pressed the gas and I left. I left the guy there and I come back, went and got my father-in-law, got my uncles. We went back maybe an hour later. And my guy was there dead. They shot him dead. They shot him twice on the stomach. And then we had to bring him to the county. That's a whole different story, man. I mean, Mexico is like, you know, I called the police. I'm like, “You know, my guy, we got shot at. My guy got killed,” and they're like, "Oh, boy, just bring the body and bring the gun, the bullets, whatever.” And I'm used to watching CSI and all that stuff. It's not like that.

Adam Robinson: They're not like making chalk outlines or whatever.

Moises Sanchez: No.

Adam Robinson: Just tie him to the back of the car and drag him in.

Moises Sanchez: Threw him at the bed of my truck. And then I grabbed some clean clothes, grabbed the shelves or whatever you call it, the shell with the shotgun. I go to the county 3 hours away and I spent the whole night there. This guy was very religious. He had been working for me for at least a year. And this is like 10 p.m. and they had police report and everything, and then the guy is like the prosecutor. I'm going to say, yeah, I don't know what title he had. And my guy is still in the back of the van in downtown of the county. He’s been there since 11 a.m., since I put him there and we got to work around 3 p.m. and my guy is still in downtown just floating. He's getting big, you know?

Adam Robinson: Yeah.

Moises Sanchez: And they're like, "Well, what does he do? Is he your relative?” I’m like, “No. He works for me.” He’s like, “Okay. Then I cannot give you the body. I'm going to throw him in a normal tomb. And the guy was really religious. I’m like, “No, no.” I'm like, "Give him to me. I'll make sure we bury him correctly.” And they're like, "No.” And I started offering him money because in Mexico it is worth money. We got to 20,000 pesos which back then was $2,000 just for him to release me the body but his sisters arrived and they recognize the body and started crying and then they said, "Yes, give the body to him.” And I was going to bring the body to his town, to his family, to bury him. And then the guy with the casket arrives, this scary-looking guy with a huge bodyguard, all black, full of gold, and by the casket. And then it's like midnight and this white truck arrives and everybody disappears. Okay. Because this county jail is like open 24/7. But when the white truck arrived, everybody disappeared. It’s just me and my father-in-law. And the guy comes out and says, “Are you with the dead guy from the small town?” I'm like, “Yeah.” He said, “Where is he?” I’m like, “In the back of my truck.”

It's like midnight. My guy is still on the back of the truck, okay? He's like, “Help me put him in my truck.” So, he parks behind me, me and my father-in-law grabbed the body, put him in the back of his truck. And then he says, “Do you have clean clothes?” I'm like, “Yeah.” I grabbed the clean clothes. He’s like, "Okay. Both of you, get in the truck with me.” So, it's like 12:30 a.m. and we're driving around our county city. One in the morning we arrive at this, what you call where you put the people - cemetery.

Adam Robinson: Cemetery, yeah.

Moises Sanchez: And the guy comes out. He's a doctor, right? He comes out here by the cemetery, opens a gate, and he’s driving. And me and my father-in-law were like, “What the hell?” And then there's a house right there and he turns on the light and he's like, “You only put the body here,” and he opens it. It's just a big room with a lot of lights and a sink and there's like knives and axes on the wall. And he's like, “Put him on the table.” And this guy made us help him do the autopsy.

Adam Robinson: That's not where I thought that story was going.

Moises Sanchez: Yeah. This guy made me. So, it was like 2 in the morning. Me, my father-in-law, and the doctor would give him a shower. We’re washing him. He cut him. He took out the little bullets that he had. He had a lot of mangoes. He's got a lot of mangoes. He ate a lot of mangoes the night before and the fat was bright, bright, bright yellow. And then his skull was really thick. The guy was having trouble opening the skull. He’s like, “He would have got shot in the head.” He’s like, “He would not have died.” So, then he put a liquid so he doesn't rot so bad so fast and we put him back. We put the little clothes on. We came back to the county and we had not eaten. My father and I, I think we ate like around 3 a.m. after that. We had a torta, a Mexican burger. After the guy, and all my people quit on me. When I went back, all my people quit on me. So, I had to take care of like because, at this time, I had 10,000 pigs. I did not know who it was or why they did it. I don’t know. They tried to kidnap me. I don't know. They tried to kill me. But exactly 28 days later, I'm driving back and I start getting shot again. Boom, boom, boom, boom. But I'm driving. And then I press in the gas. I went, and that's when I knew, “No, these guys they're out to get me.”

Adam Robinson: Yeah. They’re trying to kill you. Not him.

Moises Sanchez: I went into hiding but at this time, my wife's pregnant, my first child. I wanted to see my kid. So, I went to hiding over there. I didn't come out. My local market stopped buying pigs from me because they say that my pigs ate my guy. So, I had to drive 2 or 3 hours and sell my pigs on credit. And anybody in this town, they're all my family. They're all my uncles and cousins. Nobody talked to me. They saw a dead man walking. I was disturbed with that f*cking feeling and I hate it. That’s why I hate this f*cking town.

Adam Robinson: Yeah. I mean, it's like in the contrast from when you said it was like the best time of your life on the creek and the horse and all that sh*t. And then it's like the whole world just turned on you.

Moises Sanchez: And then what makes it worse is these are blood family like cousins, uncles, like related to me by blood.

Adam Robinson: Wild. I just can't imagine that.

Moises Sanchez: And I'm 20 years old. I’m a tough guy, right? I’m fresh.

Adam Robinson: It’s intense.

Moises Sanchez: And I left. My dad and my sister went to get me and I had a green card at this point but it was expired. It was going to expire in six months. So, the plan was to, you know, I had a warrant because I got into a lot of trouble and then I just left.

Adam Robinson: In the U.S. or in Mexico?

Moises Sanchez: In the U.S.

Adam Robinson: So, in the U.S., you got in a bunch of trouble and then your parents got you and left.

Moises Sanchez: Yes.

Adam Robinson: So, unbeknownst to you, there's warrants in the U.S. for you or did you know it already?

Moises Sanchez: I knew I had warrants. People were looking for me. County detective were knocking on my house, my ex-house, people that, I mean, I knew I had warrants. I knew that. And so, my plan is to come back to the U.S., sell real estate like crazy for six months, make $100,000 and go back to Mexico. That was my plan.

Adam Robinson: In a different part of Mexico or like the same village over there?

Moises Sanchez: No, different part.

Adam Robinson: Yeah. Start over.

Moises Sanchez: I have not been back to that place. I can never go back. I can never go back.

Adam Robinson: I hear you.

Moises Sanchez: So, we crossed the border legally and rent a car. I drove all the way here. We got pulled over once. My dad was very scared but I don't know. I mean, I wasn't scared. And he was stopped, “Well, I’m going to Minnesota.” He’s just checking the plates. It’s a rental. I got here in Minnesota. It was a Monday. We left like the 3rd of January. The first Monday of 2007, I was in Minnesota, in Philly. And I called my best friend. I called him and it was weird. He didn't go see me the first day because I got here in the morning. Second day he didn't go see me but Wednesday he went to see me and we went and had a burger at Burger King, came back around 10:30 a.m., 11 a.m. Cops come in, break the door, and they throw me and my brother on the floor, and they’re yelling at me, cursing them, but they ignored my friend. They just don't talk to him. And I'm trying to make eye contact. And the guy, he's just staring at the TV. Well, I mean, these guys when they arrested me, the whole police department of Philly was out there. It looked like they got like El Chapo's business partner or something.

You know, I've been arrested a bunch of times. There's like 10, 12 police cars that I go see but the weird part was when they handed me to another guy with civilian clothes. I'm like, “This is different.” He puts me in the Ford Escape, and they hand me like this and then he puts me here and the police grabs this. And he put me in the back of the Ford Escape and then he pulls the handcuffs and he put handcuffs on my stomach. And then he puts handcuffs from my hands to my stomach. And then he puts handcuffs on my feet. And then from my feet to my stomach, I’m like, “What the f*ck? This is not normal.” So, I asked the guy, I'm like, “Why the hell am I riding with you?” He’s like, “Oh, you have to be somebody big. Otherwise, I would not be here.” I'm like, "But I'm nobody. I just had violent crimes, beating people up with a bat. That's pretty much all that we did.” And I'm like, “How do I know that you're a cop?” And he starts giving me all these credentials and then he has FBI. He's like, “I got more.” I'm like, “No, I'm good with FBI.” So, I got here Monday. I was in downtown Wednesday.

I did eight months. I had a bunch of charges. I was looking at 30 years and I pled guilty to the only crime I did not do. And I came out. I didn't tell my wife I was locked up because she’s still in Mexico. Until four months later, she’s going to hear a rumor that I was locked up and I said, “Well, yeah, I’ve been calling you from jail.”

Adam Robinson: Unbelievable.

Moises Sanchez: So, I come out and when you’re in jail, man, everybody should be thrown in jail for three months, man. Everybody should. You learn so much, man. You learn so much.

Adam Robinson: So, can we go into that? What are like your top five lessons from jail?

Moises Sanchez: Oh, association. You have to join a clique right away. You have to. Number one, numbers.

Adam Robinson: For safety.

Moises Sanchez: Safety. I think I saw guys get themselves prosecuted for coffee. And then reading, The Richest Man in Babylon and Think and Grow Rich. I read The Richest Man in Babylon at least a hundred times there. That book changed my life. I got it when I was, in 2003, a friend gave it to me and I read one page and I put it down. But then in jail, I start again and I read it and I read that book. I read that book.

Adam Robinson: Do you still have it memorized? You read it so many times.

Moises Sanchez: I used to be able to memorize, probably talk about maybe ten pages without looking at it. But, I mean, I still read it a couple of times a year. And Think and Grow Rich, oh my God, a lot of, yeah, oh, God, sex novels. Oh, Lord. This black woman writer, she was so good at writing this book, man. You can smell it. You can hear everything. And in those stories, they're all trust black people. There's not so many novels - sex novels written by a black woman is full of rich black people. That's all you hear and they have the best sex. My job there, so when you join a clique, number one, there’s safety in numbers but you have to do something. The leader will always be the biggest guy who can beat anybody. He doesn't do nothing. So, number one, you appreciate everything. You appreciate life, number one, because you lose your freedom. They choose when to eat. They choose when to take a shower. You get punished for somebody’s f*ck ups. Food, you appreciate food.

When I came back, I had so much stress that I had gastritis acid reflux really bad. It went away when I was in jail. There's no spices. There’s no cutlery. You appreciate a cup of coffee. I mean, it's very, very valuable. You have to really be smart to protect yourself because 95% of the people that are locked up deserve to be locked up. They're just bad, stupid people. They're all stupid. A lot of the people that are in jail or prison is because they’re stupid in the head. They’re slow. So, my job was to get food. That was my job. So, it is county jail. It's not prison. It’s county jail. So, people get thrown in. They go by blocks and everybody is sad and depressed because they just got arrested for DWI, for whatever crime. So, they're all depressed and we're all hungry. The guys that were in it for three or four months were always hungry. Okay. So, I go and I say, “What’s up, man? How are you doing? What you here for?” And everybody then do nothing. Everybody is innocent. Nobody did anything. And I'm like, “Don’t worry, man. It’s going to be okay, blah, blah.”

And then I go, “Are you going to eat that?” So, I grab it and I bring it to my table to share. And then I get up and I'm always looking for the new guys. I'm always looking for new guys or somebody who’s got more charges. And I'm looking for the sad people. So, I'm very good at recognizing people who are worried, stressed, or sad. And I go and I just try, you know, I don't care about them. I didn’t because they didn’t. But I want their food so I go and I talk to them. I mean, I could get the best deal that I did in jail, man, I traded one apple for a hot meal.

Adam Robinson: Wow.

Moises Sanchez: The meal is pretty big. Okay. And then one thing that I did I'm with the Mexican table, the Hispanic table. Our leader was a big idiot from Campton. Huge guy. He killed two guys. You know, they wanted to give him natural life. He wanted 25 years. And I'm always reading and one day he comes over. He's like, “Why the hell are you always reading?” I'm like, “Well, there's nothing to do.” He’s like, “Well, why don't you come and talk with us?” I’m like, “Dude, we talked about the same thing like a hundred times already. What's there to talk about?” And then he's like, “What does that say?” And I told him what I read on the book. He's like, "And all that is there?” He didn't know how to read. This guy did not know how to read.

Adam Robinson: Oh, man.

Moises Sanchez: I’m like, “Yeah.” So, it made a habit that I'll read, and then in the afternoon, he'll sit down with me. And on the book, I'll add or take away to make it more exciting. So, I read to this guy every day. Once people saw that, nobody could touch me because this guy was huge. I'm like my clique’s favorite. So, that kept me away from trouble. I'm a small guy, never been big in my life because I associate with the best. I associate with the best and I don’t beg them or anything like that. I just become their friend. So, I get out of jail and I go right away. Start over. Start to have my license. And I sort of got it, man. I had like, oh, God, there was a curse or something that happened to me. So, I get out of jail and I go and I start, you know, I called a Mexican radio, “Hey, I need some credit. I need some advertisement.” I borrow money. I buy myself a little car. I go to the thrift store, got myself some suits, and I got a picture taken. I still have the picture of that shirt that’s too big and the collar. You can see. And I take a picture. I go to my business card and I start selling real estate again.

I got out somewhat in August and I start doing my real estate again. The end of October, I have five closings, five closings. There are about 5,000, 6000 each. In my mind, I'm netting $35,000 in commissions and I owe about 10,000 already to debts and loans. And with the other 15,000 I was sending money to my wife and my kids. And I'm going to get myself a nice suit. I'm going to get myself a decent car. And Interbank, back in the day, there was this bank called Interbank that was the name of it, FSB was the only bank who gave loans to illegals. As long as the Social Security number is not dead, they know you're illegal, they gave you a loan. And then they package it and they sell that with all the other loans on the market. And so, I have five closings. I worked really hard and they'll close on Friday, the last Friday of the month. And f*cking the Monday before, Interbank goes belly up.

Adam Robinson: I mean, so was that feeling darker than when you were in hiding? You know what I mean?

Moises Sanchez: No. No, no, no, no, no. Nothing compares to being afraid for your life. Nothing compares. Being shot at is surreal. If time moves fast and slow at the same time, it's kind of hard to explain it. But knowing that somebody is trying to kill you...

Adam Robinson: Who hunts humans for a living, right?

Moises Sanchez: Yeah. No, no, no, no, no. I made sure I found out who they were. I'll tell you the story with that one. I'm going there eventually. But being attacked and being scared for your life is probably one of the worst feelings that a human can feel. It’s that and the unknown, not knowing who and not knowing why.

Adam Robinson: How does that compare to the first day in jail before you were in a clique? Did you get briefed by anybody about what jail's like or did you just get there and you’re like, “I have to join a clique?” How did you know?

Moises Sanchez: No, no, no. I have been arrested at least 30 times before. I’ve done my time in jail. I'm used to it. And first, at least, you're not hiding anymore. You're not stressed. You don’t have to worry about food. You're locked up. You have nothing to do. If you don’t get a clique, you will be in trouble. So, my thing goes belly up. I'm broke. I have a wife and kids in Mexico to feed. I'm like, “What the hell, man? What's up with all this bad luck?” So, I go and my brother and my dad, they work at a tortilla factory. Tortilla factory was northwest but Mission Food had just bought it. It's a clusterf*ck. Mission Foods is the biggest flour company on planet Earth. They’re owned by Maseca or by Gruma Corporation, and Gruma Corporation is owned by this Mexican guy billionaire, Don Roberto González. He invented Maseca. He invented the dried flour in Tecnomaiz, the machines that make the tortillas. So, I applied to be a purchaser. I get hired, $12 an hour. It’s a clusterf*ck. They say you can work any hours as many hours as you want. I clock in at 6 a.m. and I clock out at 10 p.m. seven days a week.

Seven days a week. My check was $2,400. I don’t know if it was per week. I think it was two weeks. But after taxes, I netted like $5,000 for slaying myself. So, I'm working there. I worked there and I brought my wife and my kids here. You know, I had to save money to bring them over here because I know I cannot go back. Then I'm on probation at this time. I cannot leave the country. So, one day the owner went to the factory, the president of Gruma because they couldn't turn it around. And I wanted to shake this man's hand. That was my goal, the first billionaire in my life. I met a couple of billionaires now but probably a future billionaire right now that I'm talking to. But I wanted to shake this man's hand, right? He arrives and they’re walking around. I’m the purchaser. I bought everything for this factory except the raw materials but $100,000 printer to $0.10 pen. That's what I did. And he's walking around. It's like an hour and a half he's walking around the factory and I know that he's getting ready to leave.

So, I'm like, “F*ck this sh*t.” And I go and I'm like, “Don Roberto,” and I extend my hand. And this guy he’s very tall, very skinny, green eyes, extremely dark-skinned, darker than me. He's got a suit on. He was old. You could tell he dyed his hair. It was like pitch-black hair and I asked him in Spanish, “Dame consejos para ser rico,” so, "Give me advice on how to be rich, how to be wealthy in life.” And this man looks down on me, looks me in the eyes, and he's shaking my hands and pressed hard, and he says, “Chingale todos los días,” which means hustle every day. And let me show you what I have for my name tag. This is what I have in my office. Wait a minute. Hold on. Let me remove that. There.

Adam Robinson: I love that.

Moises Sanchez: Everyday I'm hustling. This is what he told me. I’ve been there. He’s like, “Chingale todos los días,” hustle everyday. And that's what I've been doing. That's what I've been doing. English is my second language. I work really hard in this place. They turn around. But one day my manager said, “Moises, your work ethic is second to none,” and I thought he insulted me. And in the Mexican world pride is everything. So, I quit. I didn’t show up to work the next day.

Adam Robinson: Right. That's unbelievable.

Moises Sanchez: So, by this time, my wife and my son out here in the US were living in a basement and we bought this house, me, my brother, my dad, and it's like I rented the basement. That's where me and my wife and my son lived. And I quit because he insulted me and I went back to Denny’s and I got myself the dream job of a server in 15 minutes. I got Monday to Friday, 8 a.m. to 2 p.m., and then I got a different Denny's Friday, 5 to 10, and then Saturday and Sunday 8 to 2. And I pulled this off in 15 minutes. I'm working as a waiter, I'm serving tables and I'm making pretty good money. I'm making like $1,500 a week. I think that's a lot. And then they offered me a job as a shift manager and stupid me said yes within a month and I go from making $1,500 to making $300, $400 a week. And I’m so good at that and they kept putting like extra money to test me if I steal it. I didn't know they were testing me but it's not my money. I'm like, “Hey, there's $100 more. Hey, there’s $200 more. I'm just going to put it there.” Now, I know that they were testing, right? So, I did such a good job as a shift manager that they gave me general manager of a Denny's in probably the worst place in the whole nation that the George Floyd riots, this Denny's went up in flames.

So, the Denny’s on Lake Street, I ended up there in 2008. 2008, man. Oh, God, that is by far the worst job I ever had in my life is that Denny's in the ghetto. My Mexican cook was selling coke from the kitchen line. My black servers were selling weed on the floor. I had this white lady server that her husband would come around 2:30 p.m., 3 p.m., and she'll go against the wall and he'll like check her pockets and her bra. The first time I thought she was getting robbed but then, "That was my husband. It’s okay.” So, I'm like, "Okay. Can you guys go like on that corner so that people cannot see that your husband is robbing you?” And there was an old people home like by the states. There was a lot of old, nasty-looking, poor people. And I swear probably one of them died every week. It was horrible, man. I hated that job so bad. I hated that job. And I was getting $620 a week minus taxes. $560 is what I took home, 12-hour shifts. Monday was my day off but the Super Bowl, I have to work Monday. Some famous group came to do, you know, they’re famous people. They make a menu. I have to work Monday. Thanksgiving, I had to work. On Christmas, I had to work. New Year’s, I had to work. I didn't take a day off for six months.

And I have felonies. I'm on probation. Corporate world is not going to hire me because they check your background, check blah, blah, blah your garbage. So, I went to, man, and I knew I need more money. I need more money. And I knew that sales was the only way to do it. So, I go home and I apply 100 times because that's the max that lets you. I offered them my resume 100 times every night. Every night. There's a song that I listen to. I have a little daughter about this time. This is 2009, I have a little daughter and I listen to T.I. Hell of a Life. I listen to that song every night, man. That's the first time I saw Rolls-Royce, a Phantom, and I have that car right now. I have a Rolls-Royce Phantom. I didn’t know what a Rolls-Royce was until I saw that music video.

Adam Robinson: I mean, incredible.

Moises Sanchez: So, I got my daughter. I put on my lap, and I'm applying while listening to the music. I get calls. It’s for selling credit card machines, selling signs for businesses, selling mattresses. And I got hired in all of them but then they do a background check and, boom, "Now, we cannot take you.” There’s one company, this roofing company that I applied for in 2000, I want to say 2008. It had to be 2008 or 2009. It was probably Jan 2009 and I apply. And they called me back. They're like, "Hey, you know, this is Matt. You applied for a sales job selling roofs?” I'm like, “Yeah.” They’re like, “We're going to do a presentation and an interview. When do you want to come in?” And these guys back then were doing what a lot of contractors do, which is there's not all of them but there's a lot of contractors that rip off sales guys. This is a good gig. You hire them all in the spring and you fire them all in the fall and you don't pay them. You keep the commissions. And I was part of that gig, I mean, as a victim. So, I went to the presentation. It was at a Hilton conference. Very nice building, very smart guy doing the presentation. And there was like a hundred people of us. This is the recession. You will remember the recession.

Adam Robinson: I remember. I was there. Yeah. I worked at Lehman Brothers, by the way.

Moises Sanchez: You worked at Lehman Brothers?

Adam Robinson: I was a credit default swap trader.

Moises Sanchez: Oh, God. Were you in the downtown building in New York?

Adam Robinson: Yeah. Manhattan. I lived in Manhattan for f*cking 12 years.

Moises Sanchez: Were you walking out with your box when everything went down the f*cking...

Adam Robinson: I was in there. I was in the f*cking building. I was there. I was there for all of it.

Moises Sanchez: People don’t know, man. People do not know how bad it was.

Adam Robinson: Bro, I was in the middle of it all like incredible.

Moises Sanchez: In the middle of it. But then forward a year, it was still there. It kept getting worse and worse. There was no jobs. The pink slip. Everybody talked about the pink slip. Nobody knew what a pink slip was but then it became very common. Everybody knew what a pink slip is. You're fired. So, I go to this place. They’re doing a presentation, and there's a hundred of us and there's a lot of realtors, a lot of professional people. And then they do a, it was like a four-hour presentation. Each hour they kept doing breaks and there's less people and less people and less people and towards the end, there’s like 30 of us. And they do a mini-interview. They interview me and like, “Okay. We’ll call you next week if you make it.” And they say they’re only going to call ten. So, two weeks later they call me and I made it. And I start, it's still in the winter. So, they say the official start date is the first week of April. And one thing of that interview that I went the first time, the presentation, is that they said that I will make an average of $5,000 per sale. I said, “F the 5,000. Let's just say that it's a thousand.” That means if I sell a hundred, I'll make $100,000. And to me, that was a big number. I mean, that would have been a life-changing number.

Because I made a lot of money when I was younger. I spent it all, right? I went to Mexico. I lost it all. All that investment, I lost it all. I'm over here in the States and jail and I'm just going from bad luck, man. I'm broke. I’m poor. So, I start me, my wife… I am what I am because of my wife. I told you about it. And I'll tell you about Versace. I'm going to tell you about Versace. You're going to be amazed by Versace. But I told you about it. You want to be wealthy in life? First thing you have to get is yourself a good wife.

Adam Robinson: I have one and ever since I got it, I've been getting much wealthier. Before this, I was just partying, chasing it, like I was stuck. I don't know if they have anything to do with each other but I am not stuck now and I have a great woman.

Moises Sanchez: Everything to do with that. Okay. I know surgeons that make over a million that are broke because they have a spendthrift wife. I have surgeons that you go to their office and it’s like a magazine, and then you go to their house, it looks like a pigsty. So, you need a good wife. So, me and my wife were cold calling the Hispanic community and the first week of April was the start that I got 15 minutes of training. That's it, on the field. And I have all these people that I cold-call and I set up appointments. So, the first month doing this, first month doing, selling roofs door-to-door, we go to insurance claims. We see if there's a hail damage. If there's hail damage, the insurance pays for it, if there's enough. So, my first month, I had 80 adjustments, 50 got denied. 36 of those denials got denied in a row by the same guy, the adjuster. But I ended up with 30 approvals. All the customers, I got them through knocking on doors. I sold and sold and sold and sold for that company every day. 9 a.m. I am on the street knocking on my first door, Monday to Friday.

Saturday, either 11 to 5 because people got mad if I knocked on the door at 9 and after 5 they don't want to be bothered. And Sunday I didn’t door knock. I tried one time. They all told me to go F myself. So, I get Sundays off. The end of the season, the end of the season, I sold 120 jobs for this company, 120 jobs. I should have gotten at least $300,000 minimum. All self-generated. I go to the end of the season party and I thought it said 11 but apparently, it was 10 a.m. so I arrived late and I hear that one another couple of say we had an amazing year. We did 147 roofs this year. So, I said to one of the sales guys, I'm like, "We did 147 last month? That's a lot.” He’s like, "No. 147 the whole year.” And I look at him I’m like, "That can’t be possible. I did 120. How do f*ck the whole company did 147 total?” And the guy goes, “It's all you, man. It's all you.” Do you know how many times the owners let me know how important and valuable I was to them? Zero. You know how much money they paid me in commissions. $35,000 total. That's how much they paid me. Okay. But I learned the business. Next year, I opened my own shop.

Adam Robinson: There you go.

Moises Sanchez: I opened my own shop. You know, I was a sales guy. I was everything. I didn't take it that big because I was making pretty good money by myself. 2015 is when I decide to grow. And I got myself a lot of sales guys. And then right away was $10 million, 2015. And so, to go back five years, 2017, I’ve been doing 12 million, 15 million every year without the Internet. Without the Internet. Telemarketing, there is no marketing and canvassing. That's it. Last year was the first year that I went after to the Internet. So, before I had sales guys, I sold a lot. I'm always looking for ways how to sell. I had my own Segway. The real Segway, I had my own Segway. And I went and I had a lot of guys, one thing that I'm really proud of that I pat myself in the back and I'm proud of, which I cannot do anymore. So, I understand now that what got me here is not what's going to get me there. So, I have to change.

So, I’m really good or I've been really good at grabbing Mr. Nobody's, Mr. Losers and building them into big shots. Young kids making $200,000, $300,000. You know, kids are making the most in their circle. They become the leader of the social circle because they're making money. I’ve done that a lot. I’ve done that a lot. I don't judge a book by its cover. But the problem is that they're not the professional sales guy. They're never going to be. They have hustle, they have drive, but they're not going to be the professional sales guy with the computer skills, the people skills that I need now to have a smoother operation. Because hustle can get you business but if you don't have a professional salesperson, you're not going to have a smooth operation. The bigger the company is, the smoother it has to be so it can run. Otherwise, it's very hard. So, I got a bunch of sales guys, big, big hailstorms that is storm chasing. I opened shop in St. Louis, Missouri. I had an office there. I opened a shop in Chicago but it was just for storm chasers. So, hails, we all go to that area. And then also in Chicago, we leave that area. I leave a couple of guys there to clean up, and then I go to Chicago.

Adam Robinson: Where is it? Where do you live? I mean, just renting places or like trailers or like what’s that?

Moises Sanchez: When I travel, I travel with like 30 sales guys, couple of canvassers, and probably 50 roofers. Probably like 80 of us and I just rent motels. We live in motels and we get kicked out every night because the guys are drinking and partying. And also, when you're storm chasing, you're always working. And you're like the father of everybody. You're responsible for everybody. So, I stopped doing that because it's a bad business model. So, I came back over here. We got a huge, huge storm, 2017, and that's the storm that changed everything. We sold like crazy. I went and got myself. I bought 25 Segways, the real Segways from a guy in Florida. He went out of business. You know, they have Segways that you ride. So, I got 25 Segways and I gave Segways to all my sales guys and they’re all in their Segways driving around. But again, these guys are not professional. I’m pretty sure some of them pawned them. Some of them got stolen. And Segways are great but the thing that kills you is the battery. The battery dies. You got to keep it charged. I mean the battery is more expensive than the actual machine. So, I don't even think they're around anymore but I got Segways. I also had a… Let me show you what I do. This is what the machines do.

Adam Robinson: Yeah. Amazing.

Moises Sanchez: That's with the pen.

Adam Robinson: Yeah. It's incredible.

Moises Sanchez: Okay. With a real stamp, permit, right?

Adam Robinson: Yeah.

Moises Sanchez: And if it has a permit, I don't have to put my return address. So, it's very important for me to do nothing. Doing nothing is probably the best thing that I can do that I don't get that much. So, when I get…

Adam Robinson: Hold on. Say that again. What's important for you? Are you talking about like…?

Moises Sanchez: Like, physically do nothing.

Adam Robinson: Yeah. You want to be the one who's not actually executing anything? Is that what you said?

Moises Sanchez: No, no, no, no. I want to physically do nothing to the point of boredom.

Adam Robinson: Right. At some point.

Moises Sanchez: Zero feeling.

Adam Robinson: That's like a goal of yours.

Moises Sanchez: Is that a goal or necessity that I don't get? So, I'm always shooting for that. I'm always shooting to get to the point where I'm bored. And, eventually, yeah, I am always at that point of doing nothing where I delegate almost everything. I'm almost there but it's also a little bit hard because you're going to get pulled in every now and then, right? But on a daily basis, I strive on a weekly basis, I strive to get to a point for an hour or two or an evening to do absolutely nothing like nothing, like get bored. And every time I do that and I have that time, it's either TV or Netflix or YouTube. Okay. So, people know that…

Adam Robinson: You’re saying… Can I just ask one specifying question? Does Netflix get you there or is Netflix what you're doing when you are there? You know what I mean?

Moises Sanchez: Netflix is what I'm doing when I get there.

Adam Robinson: Okay. Yeah. Gotcha. Sweet.

Moises Sanchez: And that's just a waste of time. And if there's nothing good on Netflix, I end up on my computer and YouTube. So, there’s companies that know about me selling and me running this roofing company and doing things different. And they’re trying to interview me or talk to me and I keep saying, “No, no, no, no.” You're the first guy that I talked to, okay, ever.

Adam Robinson: I appreciate it. This is going to go viral.

Moises Sanchez: There’s this guy called Dmitry. He's right here in Minnesota. He sold his roofing company and he started Roofing Insights. And he is the guy now. He did this like five years ago and his roofing channel is big and everybody follows him now. Okay. So, I'm sitting right there and I don’t like Dmitry because he preaches everything that I'm against for. He goes family time, turn off your phone at 7. He talks about stay small. And me is like, “No, f*ck you. You go as big as you can and there's no bounds of family time. Don’t try it. Your life is your work.” That's the way I think. Let me tell you how I feel about my job. Okay. Have you seen the movie, The Chocolate Factory with Wonka?

Adam Robinson: Yeah. Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. It’s great.

Moises Sanchez: Have you seen that fat kid?

Adam Robinson: Yeah.

Moises Sanchez: Well, I'm that fat kid every day.

Adam Robinson: Yeah. You're the fat kid in Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory.

Moises Sanchez: I'm that fat kid. Every time I wake up, man, I'm that fat kid. I love what I do. I generally love what I do. Okay.

Adam Robinson: That’s great.

Moises Sanchez: I'm not saying that it’s easy. It’s not but I f*cking love it. I'm not saying that I don’t get tired. I do but I still f*cking love it. Okay. I'm excited. It excites me. So, I'm watching Dmitry and he's interviewing Lee Haight. Lee Haight’s a good friend of mine. He's always trying to get me to go talk in front of his masterminds, and he's got a university and everything. But the reason why I say no is the roofing world in this country, especially Minnesota, is a white man's business. Mexicans, they're supposed to be on the roofs, replacing the roof. They're not supposed to be…

Adam Robinson: Trabajando, lavorando.

Moises Sanchez: Yeah, yeah. So, I know there’s a lot of hate, a lot of envy, a lot of– the I don’t want to expose myself, right? So, Dmitry is interviewing him and Lee Haight maybe try to ask him, “Telemarketers, which one do you recommend?” And he says, “Jose Flores.” And I know Jose Flores, a good friend of mine. I buy all my telemarketers from him. So, I felt good. I’m like, okay. So, Lee Haight says, “Jose’s good.” Okay, Jose’s good, I feel good.

And they’re checking out his office. He’s got a $65 million roofing company. He does commercial. And there’s this machine, man, running. And Dmitry says, “What’s this?” And Lee Haight says, “Oh, that machine is on all the time, like that was all the big boss, the big project, we send that. We send those letters. So, the machine writes with the pen, and this was in 2017, 2018. Right there, lightbulb went on and I watched that clip a hundred times trying to see the name or the brand because just…

Adam Robinson: It’s like zooming in on the screen, get your phone.

Moises Sanchez: And I couldn’t. I’ve spent three or four hours on Google and YouTube, machine that writes with pen, machine that writes with pen, machine that writes with pen. And finally, I end up on this guy on YouTube, this black realtor, showing off his machine. And I reckon him, that’s the one. And I said, MAXWriter.

Adam Robinson: MAXWriter.

Moises Sanchez: MAXWriter. I go on Google Maps where I get the number, I call right away. I think it was the next day. And I actually ended up talking with the owner of the company. I didn’t know who was the owner back then, but that’s the guy that I talked to. And I ordered myself one machine and I put it together, 2018, I have the machine. One girl run the machine, sending letters, real stamp, 55-cent stamping ordered, if not by hand.

2019, I get a second machine. So, I have two machines. And then during COVID, when we got the mandate that we couldn’t hang out and we couldn’t door knock, I have this conversation. I said I need to do something different. So, I decided to go all in and buy a bunch of machines and get everything that I needed to do it big. And I did not know how to do it, like I did not know how to do it. I did not know how to become a bulk mailer. And I did not know how to get my permit. I did not know where to buy the machines, the other machines. I know how to buy the writing machines, I know where to buy the printer for the bulk mail, the tabber, the address fixer, the big printers, the folder and sorter.

So, I started doing research. It took me maybe a month to get my permit for pre-sort of mail, making calls left and right. I ended up with a company that sold me the software to do bulk mail. The same company sold me the tabber, sold me the address fixer, sold me a folder and sorter. And a different company sold me the big ass printer that I use. And it’s during COVID. I ordered everything. This was supposed to be three months.

Four months go by, there are no machines. They have not arrived. And I called them and I said, “Where the hell are my machines?” “We don’t know. We don’t know to come back.” And they’re like, “Have you heard the news that there’s a lot of boats that they can’t dock because there’s a shortage of dockworkers?” I’m like, “Yeah.” It’s like, “Well, all your machines are on those boats and we have no idea when the hell are they going to touch ground. So, we have to wait.”

So, I waited maybe a month, a month and a half. The machines arrived, but in the meantime, me and my niece, she was 18 back then, we designed everything with cardboard. Have you seen the movie, the McDonald’s Brothers, how they designed their kitchen and a tennis court with chalk? Have you seen that part where they just designed? Well, we did the same thing. We spent a whole week. So, this is the tabber. This is the address fixer. This is the writing machines because we only had two at that time. This is the printer. This is the folder and sorter.

And we try to find what the rhythm is. Where do we start? What was first? And I mean, that whole thing took us 10 hours, five days because you think this is first, that’s not how it works. It is totally different how it works, how it turned out to be. So, with people, all the machines came, they install them. I spent $480,000 on equipment, $480,000 to get my machines. And I started sending 10,000 letters last year. Last year was the year that really went at it.

Adam Robinson: So, what was like a normal– you said you always used direct mail. What’s the year before?

Moises Sanchez: The year before was two machines. I was probably doing a thousand a day.

Adam Robinson: A thousand a day, and then you gassed it to 10,000.

Moises Sanchez: 10,000, and I’m going to gas it to maybe 15,000 this year because I ordered five more machines. And it gets even better. So, I’m in a mastermind. Let me start with the August rabbit hole.

My brother is 36 when he married his wife, and she was 18. Bad, bad, bad, bad idea, in Mexico. I didn’t go to the wedding because of COVID. He brought his wife over here. And the wife is a really mean person. There are some people that you meet and they have a mean– they’re just evil. He’s one of the evil young girls. And she’s 18, he’s 36.

And for some reason, my mom decided to– when I had COVID, it was like eight months later, I’m fighting with my mom on the phone. It’s a Sunday. My brother calls me. He’s like, “Hey, is my wife in the house?” I’m like, “No,” but we know where his wife is. So, I call my sisters, I call my mom, let me talk to my brother’s wife, and they pass the phone to my mom. I’m like, “You’re going to turn around and bring my brother’s wife to his house.” And she’s like, “No, she wants to go back to Mexico, we’re going to put her on a plane, and send her back.” This girl has been here for three months. And my mom is helping her to go back to Mexico. I’m like, “You’re supposed to be on your son’s side. You’re not going to do that. You’re going to turn around or you can stop the car and you kick her out. That’s fine.” And then she goes off on me.

I didn’t have a good childhood. I had a horrible childhood. My mom beat me every day. Every day, I got beat. And she’s yelling at me, she’s cursing at me. And my wife gave me this T-bone on a Sunday morning and I cut a piece and I think I cut it too big and I’m fighting with my mom. And I put it in my mouth and I didn’t chew it. And it stuck. I choked. So, I go like this, I look at my wife. I’m like this, and my mom’s in a speakerphone yelling at me, and I don’t know what to do. So, I went to a chair and I pushed myself on a thing. The chair goes on the ground. I still got it stuck. I get up, I’m looking outside and I’m thinking, I’m like, am I going to f*cking die with a piece of steak in my mouth?

And I’m like, I called out my wife. By the time they get here, I might be dead. And if I’m not dead, I’ll probably be brain-dead. I’m like, this is not coming out. I need to swallow it. So, I grabbed a bunch of saliva the most I could. And I swallow a little bit and it hurt a little bit. So, then I think, oh, water. So, I go to the sink, grab a glass of water. And my wife, she’s hitting me in the back, hitting me really hard. And I grab a glass of water and I go like this, and boom, all the water comes out.

So, I grab water again. And I’m like, I need to swallow this. So, I put water and I shove it really hard with my hands, and boom, it finally moves down. And I could breathe a little bit, but it’s still stuck right here. So, I grab more water and I drink it. And my mom starts yelling at me. I go and I hang up. And then I was thinking almost every day, I’m like, I almost died from COVID and I almost died with a steak. And I have been thinking about my life. I’m like, I really haven’t done much with my life. I do okay, but I haven’t done much. And it’s so easy to die.

Adam Robinson: Right.

Moises Sanchez: So, last year, in 2022, the first week of January, I decided, let me see how far I can take this thing, the roofing company. And I said, and I know I need the Internet. I have not got Internet not because I didn’t want to, because I did not know how to do it. I tried it, but I’m not a CPC expert. I know how to put a little simple campaign and spend $40,000 on it, but I don’t know if I’m getting customers. I don’t have a funnel. I don’t even know what a funnel was. But I knew I wanted the Internet. I knew that.

So, last year, I kept getting up at three in the morning, 3:30, 3:20, 3:18. For some reason, I always woke up around that time. So, there I am on my phone, three in the morning, and I’m on my Facebook and there’s this ad that says, “Roofers, are you sick and tired of getting expensive leads, bad sh*tty leads? You want to acquire leads, $40. Click right here to say you apply.” So, I click on it, and then I have some questions and the guy’s like, “Congratulations, you qualify. Step through our next Zoom call.” And they have one at 9 a.m., the same day. I’m like, oh, so I do that.

I get up and I meet with Max, these guys from Sweden. This guy is f*cking great. This guy got me 1,200 roof appointments last year, 1,200. This guy has never been to the US, yet he only focuses on helping roofers in the US, get customers through Facebook. So, I have this guy.

Adam Robinson: What a niche, right? God bless him.

Moises Sanchez: It’s an extremely small niche. I think he calls it SMMA or something like that. Now, he’s teaching a course. The guy is good, the guy is very good. So, I got that one. And I’m doing my mailing, I’m doing Facebook, I’m doing telemarketing, I’m doing canvassers, so mailing, telemarketing, canvassers, and Facebook.

And then I’m sitting right there last year in August. And I love Jack Daniels and I’m in my Jacuzzi, smoking my cigar. And I’m like, I’m not doing that. I’m going to do maybe the same as last year. I’m like, God damn, and I’m like madaf*ck, do I get more customers from the Internet? So, I’m drunk and I put on my phone, how to get more leads online? And I clicked on all the paid ads and organic, and I set up Zoom calls with 25 companies for Monday and Tuesday. So, the next Sunday I wake up and my phone is just troon, troon, troon with confirmation appointments. And they wouldn’t come. I am like, “What the f*ck?”

Adam Robinson: What did I do?

Moises Sanchez: What did I do? Before this, I’d probably been in two Zoom calls in my life. So, I meet on Monday and I’m going to do a bunch of companies and I want to hire them all, and I like them all. And I ended up hiring 15. I think seven turned out to be complete sh*t, but seven turned out to be pretty good. That led me to Zoom calls almost every day because once you get somebody, then you have to do an onboarding call or a demo call or whatever. So, I ended up with– have you heard of WooSender?

Adam Robinson: No.

Moises Sanchez: WooSender is nice. WooSender is really, really nice. GoHighLevel?

Adam Robinson: Yeah, I don’t know. I mean, I’m not in this world.

Moises Sanchez: Okay. Well, the data they didn’t give me is when I end up on GoHighLevel or WooSender. Their CRMs, they have a cell phone and email. They’re automatically contacting people. So, I ended up with WooSender. I sent up with WooSender. I ended up with STG. They teach you how to do commercial. This guy, that’s his first conference, he invites me, I go, and I meet this guy. He’s full of energy, and I’m like, “How can I get 10% of energy?” He says, “We got to Talk2Call. I Talk2Call. He calls and says, “Give me your information. I’ll talk to you on Monday.”

I talked to this guy. He sells me a program to go to the gym. So, I’ve been going to the gym. I lost 20 pounds. But then he says, “You need to talk to Nick Alfano.” So, I talk to Nick Alfano. He’s like, yeah, I build, man, blah, blah, blah, if you come to Cancun for our next meeting. That was Friday. So, I buy my ticket, and Tuesday, I’m in Cancun. So, I went to Cancun and life-changing. These guys, they know how to mindf*ck you.

Adam Robinson: Yeah, yeah, I know, it’s a whole charade, right?

Moises Sanchez: Yes. It’s a whole different world, but I’ve never been through there. And I signed up. I’m out of it now because it’s not what I thought. But then, Nick Alfano says “You should go to my friend Hunter’s roof con.” So, I go to a roof con and I meet John Maxwell, and I signed up his program. And then Hunter recommended to join this mastermind. He tells him. And then I read his book, and there’s all the masterminds that he read, and one of them is the War Room. So, I call the War Room, but they’re all close. But all the founders, they have their own masterminds there. So, I ended up with Founders Board with Ryan Deiss and driven with Perry Belcher and Kasim.

Adam Robinson: Do you know Perry?

Moises Sanchez: Yeah.

Adam Robinson: He’s a f*cking great guy. Perry loves our sh*t.

Moises Sanchez: Perry, last week or two weeks ago, he said, “You guys have to talk to Moises, he’s a real ninja.”

Adam Robinson: No, I mean, exactly, he loved you. You and Perry come from a little bit of the same cloth.

Moises Sanchez: I’m in those masterminds, man. And over there in the STG Dallas thing, I met Dream Design Labs. So, I’m in this route still and part of it is me talking to you. We’re now still in this rabbit hole that keeps taking me places and places and places. And one of them was WooSender. I talked to WooSender. I set up my account. I’m going to tell you something. I set up WooSender. WooSender, Adam, is an AI that leads come in and it starts talking and texting them.

Adam Robinson: It’s amazing.

Moises Sanchez: I went back the past few years and I went and spent $25,000 on laptops, MacBooks. I hired all the people I could get my hands on. And we went back to all the appointments for the last two years. And the point is that they’re not trying to customers. We put them into WooSender. And we did that for five days. I got 165 new appointments that equaled around $2 million in the first week from WooSender.

Adam Robinson: Unbelievable.

Moises Sanchez: Yeah, from WooSender, okay. And that’s where you come in, the I mean data is…

Adam Robinson: WooSender, I mean I got to look into this. Just W-O-O?

Moises Sanchez: WooSender, and then GoHighLevel. I mean, GoHighLevel is the big daddy. WooSender is a way smaller company, is very smart. Whoever gets ChatGPT into WooSender or GoHighLevel, it will be game over. It will be game over because WooSender is a little bit more smart, it has more AI, but it’s still AI that you have to import. It’s not a real AI, it has keywords, but it is capable of scheduling appointments on its own without a human.

Adam Robinson: It’s amazing.

Moises Sanchez: Okay, so that’s WooSender. I’m happy with WooSender. I got Facebook, Dream Design Labs. They’re f*cking good. I got two guys doing my Facebook now. So, I’m in these masterminds. I’m learning a lot. I go to Las Vegas for the first quarterly meetup, and that’s where I met the guy that he’s a customer of yours. He’s the one that introduced us.

Adam Robinson: Yeah, our team, Vortic Watches.

Moises Sanchez: These masterminds are very expensive. So, that means only really good people can afford and can go.

Adam Robinson: Right, totally.

Moises Sanchez: And when I got up there and I talked about my marketing system, my direct mail marketing, and the Founders Board, like 200 people there, like a quarter of the people got up and went straight to me. And I felt really, really good. They just went up, like how the hell are you doing that, right? And I told everybody everything as much as I could, then I would have driven. Driven is just marketers. I mean, they’re all agency owners. And I’m a f*cking roofer in that only.

So, I tell them what I do and they all get up and they go and they’re like, “What do you do?” And I go, “You’re not going to believe me. I’m a roofer.” And they’re like, “There’s no way you’re a roofer. There’s no way you’re a roofer.” So, I’m sitting there, remarkably taking notes. Perry’s talking, and then he says something that– I said, “Can you repeat that again?” He said, “Anything laminated does not get thrown away.” And I’m like, “Can you repeat that?” He said, “Yeah, anything laminated does not get thrown away.” I’m like, “What will you do with it?” He’s like, “It just lingers around their house. It just stays.” I’m like, “All of it?” He’s like, “42%.” I’m like, “How do you know that?” “Well, there’s a paper, you look for it.”

So, right away, I get out. I call my shop. I’m like, “Can you guys laminate my sales letter?” They’re like, “Yeah.” That was last– I got here last Thursday, so seven days ago. Yesterday, they brought me a sample. So, my letter is going to be laminated now.

Adam Robinson: Nice.

Moises Sanchez: The same letter. And if it’s true that 40% does not get thrown away, I’m sending 50,000 letters a week. That’s 20,000 letters that will not get thrown away.

Adam Robinson: Right. How much more expensive is it to laminate?

Moises Sanchez: Nine cents.

Adam Robinson: Nine cents. So, how much does it cost to get a piece of mail, like 30 or something?

Moises Sanchez: Right now, it costs me 55 cents, everything.

Adam Robinson: Right. So, nine more is really nuts, 20% more, like it’s worth it if it converts.

Moises Sanchez: I’m going to save money maybe in the print because it costs me more to print than it costs my print shop. So, it might probably equal six or seven more cents once I really look into it because I’m not going to be doing the printer anymore. They’re going to print it at the laminator, right? And if I do 80,000, I mean, I’m probably going to end up with a million of my letters in people’s houses in the Twin Cities metro area, a sales letter with my QR code lingering around people’s houses. A house, what the hell are they going to do? They’re going to call me.

Adam Robinson: They’re going to remember it.

Moises Sanchez: No, they’re going to call me. I mean, it’s going to be there. I’m going to test it. Obviously. I know if it’s going to work. But one thing that it has helped me a lot is to always, always, always, always try new things and try it big. And I’m always A/B testing, oh, my God, I’m A/B testing all the time. You have your control and your goal is to– I don’t say beat your control. I say kill your control, kill it, kill it. I’m always A/B testing. I’m A/B testing copy, I’m A/B testing the QR code if it goes to a landing page, if it goes to a funnel, if it goes to just a calendar. The one that works the best is the one that goes to a calendar. It just doesn’t say nothing, it goes to a calendar. That’s it. That’s the one who prints it. So, that’s my control right now. I’m trying to get really good copywriters because the letters that I sent up, I wrote them, and I don’t think I’m that good. I’m doing it, but I’m not that good.

Adam Robinson: You’re a marketer, so you kind of know…

Moises Sanchez: I know how to send a message, but there’s one guy, his name is John something, John Lelehan, I think. That guy, he’s an expert. You know those infomercials that you can’t stop, but it says, no? Like you go on your website, you buy some $200, this is like, but if you click right now, you upgrade to this new system.

Adam Robinson: Yeah, I love that kind of sh*t. I just love it.

Moises Sanchez: So, this guy is good at that. He’s good at that.

Adam Robinson: Value stack or whatever.

Moises Sanchez: But he doesn’t write letters. He writes it, and they do different, although. He’s like, I’ll write it, I’ll shoot it, but we’re going to share the profit, right? And they do online things, webinars and stuff like that. But he’s very good. If I can get somebody like him to write my letter to a point that they cannot put it down and not call or not go to my website and just play with their mind. And I know that such a copy is out there and I’m going to keep looking until I find it. I’m going to keep looking until I find it.

Adam Robinson: I think we share this. I’m the same way, like I always try to reserve 20% of my time for just doing big stuff outside of what’s working, just trying, just like, whatever.

Moises Sanchez: Me, I’m probably the opposite. I’m probably 80% trying new things.

Adam Robinson: Really?

Moises Sanchez: You have no idea how much I’ve been doing since December. I got a coach, Jay Z, this guy I pay him $8,000 a month. He flies over here and talks to my sales guys. He’s a life coach.

Adam Robinson: What’s his name?

Moises Sanchez: Coach Jay Z. When Donald Trump had his first rally, he’s the one who pumped the crowd.

Adam Robinson: Do you recommend him for a sales coach? I wanted to get a sales coach for my squad.

Moises Sanchez: Not sales coach. So, I am in the blue-collar business. Roofing is for the broken home people, I’m one of them. Roofing is full of ex-drug addicts or drug addicts, single mothers. It is blue collar. That’s what the majority of the people. And I care about my sales guys. You guys have no idea. I’m going to tell you right now what I have for myself just right now.

I got ripped off when I was a sales guy. And the reason why over my company is because I wanted to pay my sales guys the most that I could and still make a big, huge profit because I like money. I like a lot of money. If there’s not a lot of money, I’m not interested, but I’m willing to work my ass off for it and provide good service, quality service to my customers.

And so, I pay my guys a lot and I give my guys a lot of free stuff. I got them all a Segway, a seventh on those Segways. I give crazy bonuses every day. I give crazy bonus every week. I have yearly bonuses that are super crazy, like 30% of their income. I have something that most companies don’t have, it was into roofing. I have two sales guys that sold over $4 million each. Both made over $600,000.

Adam Robinson: God bless them.

Moises Sanchez: Commission. That’s their take-home. So, I got this life coach. And he was here on Tuesday, that’s the second time he comes here and I saw the difference is working. My guys are more pumped up. They’re really buying into it. And this guy’s really, really, really helping them out. So, I’m going to make a lead magnet to get sales guys. And this is what my guys get that everybody’s going to be begging, knocking on the doors to get it. And I’m making it so hard for my guys to quit on me or become a competition. I mean, that’s part of it.

So, my guys, they get paid about 20% more than the average company pays and I’m okay with that. They get six to eight appointments put under calendar, high-quality appointments every day. Nobody does that.

Adam Robinson: Dude, we have the same philosophy. I mean, I tell my people, I told my CRO, I’m like, “I want our salespeople to make more than they can make anywhere else. I want them to have an inbound sales job to where they show up and they’re just closing f*cking deals all day long. That’s it.”

Moises Sanchez: Yeah. So, let me keep going. So, 20% higher pay, six to eight appointments per day, high quality, there’s no cap. I’m not going to say you have to stop selling because we cannot handle it. That will never happen. There’s 50 years of combined experience between myself in selling, my production team, and my actual roofers, the subs, and the back office. We have a really good system. We can handle a lot. That’s three.

Four, money, we have cash and we have lines of credit that allow us to run very smoothly. They don’t have to worry that we’re not going to have the money to build the jobs. Five, they get 52 weeks draw, a weekly draw. They have check security. Nobody gives draws. Nobody gives draws in the winter. My sales guys get the biggest draws in the winter because of the formula system that I have for the commissions. So, they’re always getting a check. That’s key for sales reps to get a check. This is commission only. That’s five.

Six, life coach, somebody who’s talking to you and trying to make you better. Number seven, daily training. Daily training. We’re always training, 9 a.m., everybody is here and we’re training, we’re talking about things, we’re trying to figure out how to make it better.

Adam Robinson: Who’s leading that? Do you have sales leaders leading internally? You’re getting people externally or like…

Moises Sanchez: No, no, I have a guy and he does train them. Number eight, this one is really good. I did not know about VAs. When I went to this mastermind, my eyes were open to offshore assistance. So, we hired five. They’re going to be for my office, for my internal office. These are fluent– I mean, I have appointment centers from Mexico. They’re good. But I did not know that I could have a virtual assistant, people that work. They need a computer and Internet. I have five already that I hired in the last five days. Very good for my inside people.

And now, I’m going to start looking for offshore assistance for my sales guys. So, these guys are going to have their own assistant that is going to follow up for them, that is going to sketch things for them, that is going to remind them of things. And I’m a sales guy, the bragging rights. You’re going to be at the bar and you’re going to grab the phone, like, hold on, I have to call my assistant. “Hey, Mary, did you talk to Mrs. Johnson? Did you schedule that? Okay, sounds good. Thank you. Appreciate it.” Pook. Because I know how they are. Good sales guys are lazy. Good sales guys are the most lazy people on planet Earth.

Adam Robinson: Totally. Because they can get away with it, yeah.

Moises Sanchez: They suck at following up, they suck at getting things done.

Adam Robinson: But I agree with you. I want to feed the best sales guys, the best leads, and make the most money for everybody, right?

Moises Sanchez: Watch this, I’m going to have 25, 30 assistants tied up to my sales guys. I’m going to say two weeks, two weeks, that’s going to change. And the word– and I have my voice. My voice is like the God of LinkedIn. He’s making my LinkedIn sound like I’m like this.

Adam Robinson: A don, baby, a don.

Moises Sanchez: Yeah. He’s my lead man and I’m going to once the local market hears about all the benefits that you get working, selling for my company, they’re going to be knocking on my door, they’re going to be knocking. And I give my guys total freedom. Total freedom. But I’m very strict. I have very few simple rules. And I hire fast, but I fire faster. There are very simple rules. I cannot put up with as*holes. I cannot put up with irresponsible people. I cannot put up with liars. If I catch you lying, if you’re an ass to anybody in my organization, to my customer, anybody in my office, to me, you’re out. You’re out. If you’re late for a company meeting, for an appointment, you’re out. You’re 100% out unless you’re running late because you’re closing a deal because these are outside sales, right?

And another thing, we have core buyers and everything, but one thing that people understand, my organization, my team, especially my sales guys, they are first, not the customer. People said, “Customer comes first.” The customer’s not always right. Customer is right a lot of times. But when it comes to something with the customer and the sales guy, we start with the sales guy being first, we start there, and then as we get more information, then we decide, right? I always think highly of my sales team. My sales team, without them, I can’t do anything.

But at the same time, I’m not on my knees, scared of losing them. I can lose them, I don’t care. I can get more right away because I’m always hiring. I’m always hiring, always hiring. I have guys who have been selling for me for eight years. I have 12 guys who have been selling for me for more than six years.

Seasoned sales guys are like walking ATMs. They understand the business. They know how the business works. And the most important thing, this is the most important thing, they know what not to do. I mean, “Moises, how do I do this? What should I do to grow my business? What should I do to get to that level?” And I said, “That’s the wrong question. The right question is, what should I not do?” Because if you know what not to do, that keeps you out of legal trouble, that keeps you from making huge financial mistakes, that keeps you from making the wrong decisions. So, ask me what not to do and I’ll give you five. What to do will come to you because what works for me is not going to work for you. And I think people test things. Every time I test anything, I go waist-deep in it. I will put my toe, I’m going to say, “Oh, does it work?” You have to do big enough to decide if it’s going to work.

Another thing that I do, every time I do something, I do with three different vendors, three different agencies because they all work different. They all have their own recipe. And a lot of times, two of them, shockingly, one is good, and sometimes, two of them are good. With my Facebook, I have two really good agencies doing really good. They have different advertising styles, even though they’re both on Facebook. I’m still getting appointments to this day from both of them. Both of them. Are they competing against each other? Okay, yes, they are. But I can compete with my competition, but I cannot compete with myself. I benefit on both sides. The Rothschilds don’t finance both wars. Make your money from both of them. You know what I’m saying?

Adam Robinson: Totally.

Moises Sanchez: So, people say that, but you compare this, I’m like, so the competition can compete against me, but I cannot compete against myself. If I beat myself, don’t I win? Nothing that it says, whoever spends the most money gets the customer. I always said that. Dan Kane says that. Ryan Deiss, he said that he’s like, whoever spends the most money wins the customer.

And I felt so validating to hear from somebody who’s alive. You have to spend the money. You have a marketing budget, don’t spend like an idiot. Be a guardian of it. Be a good guardian of it. Protect them, but the goal is to spend it all. Spend it all. Sometimes, if you can’t spend it, then you stop because nothing you can apply to it. So, with you, I mean, you’re a big part. We have a style. I think we kind of got, like, with Retention, but I always have a bunch of ideas in my head.

Adam Robinson: You’re going to do well with the type of ingenuity that you have. You don’t really fit into our perfect customer profile, but you’re going to make it work. That’s for sure.

Moises Sanchez: Value is your friend, man. Value is your friend. Value is your friend. I mean, I’m still going through value. I tell my guys– probably, you guys are doing the same thing. I’m buying SaaS technology, my technology stock, and it’s very hard to buy technology right now, man. You guys don’t want to sell that because of churn, I get it. It’s so hard to buy it, man. I almost had to beg you guys to buy it because your customer right now, your ideal customer is Shopify stores. I’m not on Shopify.

Adam Robinson: But it’s like there are enterprise value reasons for it.

Moises Sanchez: Yeah, I get it. Also for my bookkeeping, he’s going to Shopify stores too, but he’s really good. He’s betting, I’m like, betting, I’m like, I’m big. I mean, why are you guys saying no to me? We’re in the same mastermind. He’s like, okay, let me look at it, what we know. I’m like, I get it. But I still want good value. It’s very hard for roofers to get bookkeepers for some reason. It’s very hard. I’ve been rejected three times last year. I still have my CPA do my bookkeeping, but I want a good professional bookkeeper that gives me a daily f*cking report and shows me where my f*cking money went today or yesterday.

Adam Robinson: So, dude, there’s this new company in the Shopify ecosystem. It’s called Final Loop. It’s an AI mix of QuickBooks and a bookkeeper that it does it all, it creates a real time P&L, that’s their pitch. It’s just you feed in your transactions. It’s final with only one L, Final Loop.

Moises Sanchez: The background is brown?

Adam Robinson: Yeah, that’s the one. Check it out. Just have somebody look into it. But I’ve been talking to these guys a little bit because somebody who’s helping me out helps them out. There are some Israeli guys. Apparently, this is a really bad ass.

Moises Sanchez: Have you worked with

Adam Robinson: No.

Moises Sanchez: Okay. How about– the other one is Gong, G-O-N-G.

Adam Robinson: We use Gong, yeah. I mean, we like– I think you got to have a guy who knows Gong really well and can sort of teach it to everybody and you got to have a sales…

Moises Sanchez: I can hire somebody that can come, but I’m trying to buy Gong. And the guy is not trying to sell to me. I’m like, okay, my guys, they all type, but I still have 20 people who work the phone. There’s email. I need the data. I’m like, “What kind of sales guy are you?” I’m pretty sure there are some bad things on Gong that will show it to me, then I can make some decisions. And, they give you data and all your digital marketing.

Adam Robinson: It’s like there’s got to be a business in just creating lookalikes of these companies that only one is– like, as the vendor now who’s trying to sell for a billion dollars, I totally understand why we only want to sell to one type of person. It’s like for $3 million, we’ll stick around forever and that’s how you get 20 times your revenue, right? But I hear you, man, it’s like I would be frustrated, too. It’s like you want to be f*ckin sophisticated.

Moises Sanchez: In the last six months, it has gotten real hard to buy technology, SaaS companies. It’s gotten really, really hard. They don’t let you open an account. You have to make a demo. And then the demo, they’re really trying to see if you are going to be the right customer. And I get it. I get it, I mean, because there’s a lot of things when I’ve tried things and then they cancel right away or whatever, I get it. Everybody now is charging the whole year. And that’s great because you get a whole year’s revenue the first month, the first week. But everybody’s going the same way. It seems like once somebody copies somebody, the other one follows.

Adam Robinson: Yeah. Well, I just think it’s like the valuations of these come– a lot of them raised a lot of money. They were burning a lot of money to grow. And the valuations have compressed so much in the public markets. People are trying to do whatever they can to salvage whatever they can from their valuation, and churn is the biggest thing. It is such a driver of value. That’s just what it is.

Moises Sanchez: So, you’re trying to go sell. I got offered 40 million last year and I said no, I’m not interested. There’s a lot of money from the Wall Street that they’re running out of things to buy. Learning the simple things actually makes sense because they last a long time. So, you think enough, except– I think you’re probably the most famous company doing this because I did not know about this until the guy with the watches told me about it and I said, “Wait, wait, wait, what?”

Adam Robinson: Well, we’ve only been around for three years.

Moises Sanchez: Well, the guy told me like, and then once again, it works. I’m like, “Can I get their phone number? Can I get their email? I’m very interested.” And he gave it to me. But you say that you want to exit. So, let’s say you exit. What the hell are you going to do?

Adam Robinson: No, I actually want to do a big secondary round in a year. My goal is to sell 10% for $100 million and then try to go huge. I’m already playing about as big as I can play. But if I took $100 million off, I would play even f*cking bigger. I would go raise a bunch of debt. I go buy everybody. I go try to crush this thing.

Moises Sanchez: Do you play the whole world or just the US?

Adam Robinson: Just US because it’s for legal reasons. Otherwise, I’d love to. It’s not allowed here, it’s not allowed in Canada.

Moises Sanchez: Can you find a way anywhere else, Mexico or any other markets?

Adam Robinson: So, I don’t know about Mexico. I mean, we’re fueled off of publisher networks that are US-centric. I don’t know if they exist in other countries, and I just haven’t looked. There’s such a big opportunity here in the next two years. I should be sniffing around, though, for sure.

Moises Sanchez: Okay. It’s amazing, man. It’s amazing how– and also, now that I’m hanging out with a lot of different people, I’m learning of how there are so many business owners that don’t know sh*t. They don’t know marketing. They don’t know how to type. They don’t know Internet. I’m like, how the hell are they getting by? It’s like, oh, they pay our young kid, and the young kid doesn’t care, but he has enough that…

Adam Robinson: It works, breaks even, or whatever, yeah.

Moises Sanchez: But they’re not out there, trying new things and trying to do this and trying to do that. I’m always doing a lot of things. One thing that I did this week, I started doing branding. I had a wizard of ads, bigger and expensive company. They start bringing my company. So, the goal is to hit a million people three times a week for two weeks for $1 per sold, they call it. So, that’s branding.

And I also finally got my agency of record for digital marketing. This company is going to think of all my digital online presence. They’re going to do everything. But this guy is actually like in it, like this, I said, guy, he’s in it. He’s local. He gets excited. We talk a lot. So, I feel really, really good. I feel like I’m in good hands. So, I’m just going out there trying to find the people that– have you heard of Kasim?

Adam Robinson: Kasim is the man. You should go on his podcast.

Moises Sanchez: No, no, his mastermind.

Adam Robinson: Yeah, yeah, but he’s got a podcast. They have a fun podcast.

Moises Sanchez: Well, he’s number one media buyer for Google, and he’s doing my Google now.

Adam Robinson: Yeah, he’s a smart motherf*cker.

Moises Sanchez: That guy’s amazing. That guy’s amazing. We’re just testing right now, but once the snow melts, I’m doing so many things. I mean, 50 million, it’s going to be a no-brainer. You know what I’m going to do once I hit 50 million? I’m going to put systems in place with Ryan Deiss. He’s going to come with $100,000. Three days, we’re going to fix it, put everything in place, and then I’m going to put it in a box and then I’m going to go to another state and do the same thing.

Adam Robinson: Boom.

Moises Sanchez: And then I’m going to go to another state and do the same thing.

Adam Robinson: Billion in revenue, maybe there’s 50 states. You know what I mean?

Moises Sanchez: Five or six, I think.

Adam Robinson: That’s awesome. I love that.

Moises Sanchez: And then just put operators. If I have five companies doing $30 million, this is a $30 million average, that’s 150. I’m netting 20%. I’m grossing 40%, I’m netting 20%. That’s a sh*tload of f*cking money.

Adam Robinson: That’s a sh*tload of money, dude. You’re going to be making a lot of TikTok videos, a lot more sh*t than earlier, right?

Moises Sanchez: I’ll buy, if I can, a million acres in Wyoming and build myself a house and just lose myself there.

Adam Robinson: Yeah. Get bored, right?

Moises Sanchez: Get bored, get bored. It’ll probably last a week. So, I mean, I’m doing a lot of things. I’m doing a lot of things. And my wife thinks that there’s something out there. He wants to put a course to teach people. And it’s very simple, tell people just try things all the time.

Adam Robinson: All the time.

Moises Sanchez: You don’t have to know your…

Adam Robinson: Always be learning.

Moises Sanchez: Always be learning, always be working, always be hustling. Follow your gut. Follow your gut. I’m the wrong person when they say family time or work balance, I mean, I love what I do. What I do is I wake up and I’m working and I stop working to go to bed, to go to sleep. Simple as that. Simple as that. If you don’t love what you’re doing, don’t f*cking do it. Go do something else. Life’s too short to be doing something you don’t love. I mean, that makes no f*cking sense.

Adam Robinson: I agree.

Moises Sanchez: It makes no sense. I feel lucky that I wake up and I do what I like, which is this. And it’s not just roofing, it could be anything, anything where I make the phone ring, creating sales teams, doing a lot of things. And I’m excited with the new technology. I’m excited with ChatGPT. I mean…

Adam Robinson: Dude, it’s wild. It’s f*ucking wild. We’re doing some stuff with it.

Moises Sanchez: I think the company that sets software where it tells you how to talk to it, that creates prompts, the company that figures out how to create prompts for anything you need so you can ask ChatGPT, I think that company will become huge.

Adam Robinson: Yeah. $300 billion or something, right?

Moises Sanchez: It’s huge. I need to write a sales letter on how to for my roofing services in the Minneapolis area, and then they give me 10 prompts of what to put on ChatGPT because ChatGPT, you have to know how to talk to it.

Adam Robinson: Yeah, you got to know how to ask it in the right way.

Moises Sanchez: But if you do not know, what the hell, you kind of know what you want, but you just don’t know how to Ai-Da, 6W’s. Nobody knows what 6W says. Ai-Da, nobody knows that. They have simple language that they’re trying to get something, but they can’t because they’re not using the right words. I mean, if I find a company that can give me prompts, I’m going to pay for that because it’ll help me a lot. It’ll help me a lot. So, what do you think of ChatGPT? What do you think? I mean, are you doing anything with it?

Adam Robinson: We’re using it to– we’re creating a media property to enable some other data products we have and we’re basically using ChatGPT to write the content. This editor that was my buddy who started this big media property called Thrillist 20 years ago in New York, he’s doing content for it and he’s, dude, like subject line matters, the first couple of paragraphs, people might read. The rest of it’s just let ChatGPT write it. It’ll save you a lot of money. So, we put it together. So, that’s what we’re using it for. But these guys, these Jasper guys, it’s craziness. I mean, it’s f*cking nuts, like watching. They got 50,000 people in 12 months. They got 50,000 people paying them $99 a month.

Moises Sanchez: I’ve been paying them. I don’t know how much I’m paying, but I got the bigger one that they offer.

Adam Robinson: Yeah, yeah, like $1,000 a month or something like that.

Moises Sanchez: Yeah, I’ve been paying them since, I want to say October. And I use it a lot. I use a lot of them. They’re good, what I mean, it’s better than my brain. It’s better than me. It saves me a lot of time.

Adam Robinson: It’s incredible.

Moises Sanchez: There’s a lot of technology. Well, I’m excited. Let’s go a little bit. I have to go home and…

Adam Robinson: Yeah, yeah, man. Dude, thank you so much for coming on, I mean, so much came out of this. I make some shorts out of these, like I make little LinkedIn videos where I hold up lessons learned. I got several from you. You’re going to love this. I have five lessons from jail, how to go viral on TikTok.

Moises Sanchez: I mean, I think everybody should get locked up for a couple of months. You make it mandatory. You learn so much. You learn…

Adam Robinson: The lessons from jail I got from you is join a click immediately. The big guy is always the leaders, so you’re there for safety. And then you have a job that you have to do, and then you read, which is incredibly valuable because no one has time to read in their normal life. It makes you appreciate the life outside because your freedom’s gone. Little things make a big impact, like you start to appreciate food and coffee way more. You learn street smarts. And because 95% of people in there deserve to be locked up, they’re dumb mother*ckers. You learn cold-blooded manipulation, for lack of a better way to describe it. And then you learn to make alliances.

Moises Sanchez: Yes. And write this one down. You know for sure who is your friend. When I was locked up, only my dad and my brother visited me. They put $30 every week. I use that to buy a phone card and buy some coffee. Nobody else went to visit me. Nobody else. You know how many friends I have? Zero. I have zero friends. I don’t want any friends. I got my wife, I got my kids. I mean, I got my dad and my brother. I make my friends’ friends. I have zero. I got zero. So, when you’re locked up, that’s when you see who really cares about you.

Adam Robinson: Totally.

Moises Sanchez: You see who cares about you, you see who has your phone calls, you see who is to visit you, you see who puts money on your books. You learn a lot. And write down, when you go to jail, jail is all by race. If you are white, don’t try to go join the blacks or the Asians or the Native Americans. No, you go with the whites. There are some Hispanics that are writing, they’ll speak Spanish, they’re Hispanic. I think, the white, they go with the whites, but there’s that racist whites, the KKK. And they tell them, get out of here. So, they don’t know what to do. So, they go with the blacks, and the blacks say, get out of here. And we’re all paying attention. At the end, they end up with us. And if they’re nice, we’ll let them in because we could easily say, “Why don’t you come to us first?” They don’t pay attention. If we reject them, his ass is everybody’s but his. That’s the last thing. So, it’s all by race. It’s all by race. It’s all by skin color.

Adam Robinson: We’re tribal people.

Moises Sanchez: Once you’re locked up, you are, you are, you are. But you learn so much, you’re going to know how to value everything. You learn what real freedom is. And you don’t take a lot of things for granted. I mean, a lot of things, there are so many things that people take for granted, being able to sleep in your own bed, waking up at that time that you want. They do wake up at 5:15 a.m. Your bed has to be made, and I mean, I was in a freeze. I was there in January. They give you a mattress, it’s this thick, on a concrete, and it’s cold as f*ck. Every night, I’m like, I might not wake up. I always wonder how the big guys did it because the big guys will get the same amount of food. I always wonder how the big guys get by.

Adam Robinson: Yeah, man, it’s wild.

Moises Sanchez: They have to beat somebody, they have to steal food from somebody. I don’t know how they do it. I never kept an eye. I don’t want to go back, obviously. But I mean, I learned a lot. I learned a lot, and that changed my life. That changed my life. The Richest Man in Babylon, that’s a book that everybody should read.

Adam Robinson: Well, dude, I haven’t read that book. I’ve read Think and Grow Rich a lot. I love it. Man, it’s a f*cking great talk. There’s so much to be learned from you. You’ve had such an interesting journey. I just keep thinking. It’s like listening to people who are complaining about not having a job, they just need to listen to this and appreciate what you have been through. And three different times in your life, you were basically rock bottom.

Moises Sanchez: Oh, yeah.

Adam Robinson: Maybe four times, right?

Moises Sanchez: Yeah.

Adam Robinson: Like back up against the wall, and you just kept f*cking swinging.

Moises Sanchez: You just keep going. You never stop. You keep going, you keep going. The drive, the hunger, and also, the things that I have right now, if my Ferrari or my Rolls-Royce breaks down or I lose it, it was up in flames, I will not buy it again. But it was part of the journey. It was part of the journey. Now, you think that the money and the flashy things and the big house is it, but once you get up there and you look around, then you realize that that’s not it.

Adam Robinson: The game isn’t it, brother. The game.

Moises Sanchez: The game isn’t it. But what is it is your wife and kids.

Adam Robinson: Yeah, true. True.

Moises Sanchez: That’s it. That is the thing, I mean, but it’s part of the journey. It’s part of the journey. People criticize me. And I’m like, when I bought the Ferrari, it’s because that’s the thing that I could afford and that’s the thing that could prove that I’m making it, right? When I bought the Rolls-Royce, that said I made it. Now, I don’t have to do that. I don’t have to do that.

Why they buy so much of Versace? Because it’s me proving to the world that I’m making it. I’m making it. Now, I don’t have to do that. I will not do it. I still have the clothes. I like it. But once you start making money, and the more money you make, the less people you have around you. I’ve been sued a couple of times, only last ones by the closest people around you. I mean, there’s a lot.

When I came here illegally, we crossed over the mountains. They tried to rape my mom. The coyote negotiated with the guys and said, “Her kids are here. There’s a 16-year-old girl on the next trip. I’ll make sure you guys can have her.” I’m going to say that they didn’t rape her because it was only a couple of minutes and my mom never said anything about it. We got caught. It was back. We went through a tunnel. There were little kids in the US side with screwdrivers. They robbed us. And we got in a van. We went to Phoenix. It was 18 of us. A lot of weight. The van got pulled over. We got a car. We got thrown back.

The third time, the same tunnel, maybe an hour after we arrived in Mexico. We were walking through the tunnel. It’s pitch black. It’s like 45 minutes of just pitch black. And we’re getting robbed, but this time, it’s 16-year-old kids. The first one was like eight or ten-year-olds. This one was like 16-year-old kids. They got machine guns and everything.

And there’s a lady dying. I saw a lady dying. She would not let go of her gold chain and they just poked her. And she was just laying there, gotten her breathing slowly with blood around her stomach. And this little kid throws me on the ground and takes my tennis shoes and gives me his old tennis shoes. I was 12. This kid was probably eight. And I was so fucking scared, man. I was so scared. And I ended up here with oversized nasty-looking tennis shoes. And life is beautiful. I love this country. Life is beautiful. And this is the only country where you can work hard every day and do the right things. And you always get rewarded.

Adam Robinson: Yeah, man.

Moises Sanchez: You always get rewarded.

Adam Robinson: God bless them.

Moises Sanchez: You have to always learn more things. You have to learn. You have to learn always. What works today is not going to work tomorrow.

Adam Robinson: Right.

Moises Sanchez: You always have to get better, learning, networking. I did not know mathematic system. I am thankful that I know them now. I’m grateful in the masterminds that I have. In Slack, I can ask any recommendation, anything. And these guys come together and they give me the best. Look what I have on my phone.

Adam Robinson: Love that.

Moises Sanchez: So, networking, and when they say your network is your net worth, I understand why they say that now.

Adam Robinson: Yeah, I agree. People are everything.

Moises Sanchez: Yeah, people, I hope, I mean, you can hang out one of these days, have a beer, have a coffee, something…

Adam Robinson: This is awesome. I learned so much from you. I am just so glad we got a chance to talk. And the people are going to love this to hear this.

Moises Sanchez: This country is beautiful, the market is beautiful, and you just have to find your customer, find your people, and just go at it every day. Go at it every day, and don’t be the cheapest. I will still be– but I’m the most expensive in the market. I’m not the cheapest. I’m the most expensive. But I provide Rolls-Royce service.

Adam Robinson: Totally.

Moises Sanchez: And I know how to do it. I know how to do it. Don’t ever be cheap. Cheap is nasty. Thank you, man.

Adam Robinson: Take care. See you, Moises.

Moises Sanchez: You too. See you later. Bye-bye.


You’ve undoubtedly heard the term “From Rags to Riches,” but today’s guest has a story that will blow your mind. This might be one of the most insane “American Dream” success stories I’ve ever heard. Don’t say I didn’t warn you!

Moises Sanchez’s path to success certainly wasn’t easy. After leaving Mexico with a 6th-grade education, his family moved to the US (illegally) with no money and without knowing a word of English. He became a guerrilla marketing phenom in real estate by the age of 18 and eventually grinded his way to a successful multi-million dollar roofing business that brought in $50M last year.

But there’s so much more to his story than that. While in the US, enjoying tremendous success in real estate, he started going down the wrong path. With outstanding warrants in the US, his parents forced him to leave the US and move back to Mexico.

This is where it starts to get crazy. Moises moved back to Mexico with $350K, met his wife and bought a pig farm. Life was great until he eventually woke up to gunfire from Narcos in Mexico. After nearly losing his life, he left Mexico to return to the US, but was arrested by the FBI and ended up in jail. Moises did his time, got released, and started a new life with his roofing business. And the rest, as they say, is history.

Today’s episode is a powerful story of inspiration, how true success is often found with true grit and by overcoming many impossible obstacles, and how the American dream is possible if you never give up. If Moises can do it, then nobody has an excuse.

Key Takeaways with Moises Sanchez

  • How Moises got started in real estate at 18 years old and found success with guerrilla marketing.
  • Why he returned to Mexico and was able to do it with $350K in his pocket.
  • How Moises managed to escape from Narcos and gunfire at 9am on his pig farm.
  • The lessons he learned from his 8 months in jail after returning to the US.
  • How Moises’ roofing company was generating 8-figure annual revenue without online advertising.
  • The hail storm that changed everything in 2017 and how he deployed his team with Segways.
  • What happened when Moises went all in direct-mail marketing after discovering MAXWriter and sending 10,000 letters a year.
  • Tools and services that Moises uses for marketing like WooSender and GoHighLevel.
  • How WooSender helped to generate 165 new appointments and $2M in sales in the first week!
  • The value of laminating direct-mail marketing as it increases the likelihood of it being kept and not discarded.

Moises Sanchez Inspiring Quotes

  • “Life is beautiful. This is the only country where you can work hard every day, do the right things and you always get rewarded.” - Moises Sanchez
  • “You always have to learn more things. What works today is not going to work tomorrow.” - Moises Sanchez
  • “If you don’t love what you’re doing, don’t f*cking do it.” - Moises Sanchez


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